Ep. 030– Launching a new HR model at SAP
We discuss the shifts and trends impacting the HR industry. The opportunities created both during and post COVID for the function itself. What prompted SAP to create a new HR model, how they've approached this redesign in order to add value to the organization in new ways.
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EP. 030 Transcription
[00:00:00] Steve: Sabrina, welcome to The experienced designers.
[00:00:03] Sabrina: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here.
[00:00:07] Steve: Me too. I'm very grateful. And of course, we we shared an amazing stage in Serbia, didn't we at disrupt hr?
[00:00:15] Sabrina: We did, yeah. There was quite an event, I have to say, and I've made so many connections that I'm still in touch with afterwards.
It was really amazing.
[00:00:24] Steve: It was amazing. Let's just share a little bit on this because Disrupt HR, especially Serbia. I mean, no disrespect to any others, but for me I was really thinking about Serbian, you know, going to Serbia, experiencing Belgrade and the hospitality and the team that obviously run the Disrupt HR event was amazing.
The venue was really unique. And just, yeah, what a movement, I think that's going on out. What would you say?
[00:00:46] Sabrina: Oh, totally. I love, like, and I've also, I've said this before, Serbia is one of my, let's say, favorite countries to travel to in, in my job, simply because of the people and the culture there.
I just feel like, . It's not only, it's it's hard work, but also live your life. And this, I think, shows in pretty much everything that they do in in, in the whole approach. And with Disrupt hr, I think they have just, I mean, they have transformed the whole event into just that by, by, by choosing this amazing location as well, that it's, you know, super.
Rough and you know, it's an old building, but you know, transformed into something super modern. So it's again, disrupting and the community is just. Easygoing super open, but also, you know, challenging and demanding if you talk to them like they, they really want to move something and they really want to yeah be at the forefront of of hr in the country, in Europe and in the world.
And I just, the energy. Was just amazing at the event. And plus I have to say, it disrupted the way I usually do keynotes as well. Like that's what I said to Marsha at the time. That, for me was also a bit of a disruption since I usually don't, you know, script my things, you know, into like 20 seconds when the slides move by itself.
But that gives it a whole unique vibe as well. Perfectly organized event. Great. Yeah, great atmosphere.
[00:02:20] Steve: I agree. I agree. And for those that aren't aware of Disrupt hr, the format is it every 20 seconds, 15 slides, was it . And you know, as a speaker we, you know, half an hour of 40 minute keynote is easy in comparison to creating and deliver.
Story and a narrative and knowledge in five minutes. I found out the prep for it was really challenging. But I have to say everybody who was there, the diversity of the of the speakers and the, and their content I thought was fantastic. What a hit of knowledge that you get from so many different areas as a, as an audience.
So, super grateful and of course that gave us the opportunity to connect and I think it's That's one of the amazing things. And here we are today, . Where are you today, by the way? Where are you today? I'm at
[00:03:05] Sabrina: home, in my home office. Since I've had an early start with calls I decided to stay at home and record this from home and not go to the office.
Yeah.
[00:03:14] Steve: Perfect, perfect. So we're joining remotely today, and so. So look, I'm I just also wanted to, cuz I had a little dig in your, into your background, a little sneaky look into LinkedIn and just say, okay, what's yeah, what's Sabrina all about? Let's have a look to see your career journey and stuff.
And I was there was two things I wanted to, just to delve in, just to un a way of the audience learning a little bit more about you. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, this year was 16 years at sap. Yes. Is that correct? Wow. That
[00:03:42] Sabrina: is correct. Yeah. What a journey. I know it's crazy. .
[00:03:49] Steve: I was really interested cuz you, did you start as an intern or what was your starting point into the, because you, I think you did a thesis on approaches to shared services in HR for AMEA based multinationals, , which I thought.
Okay. We, I guess you, you already knew at that age where maybe where you wanted to head. It's quite interesting.
[00:04:08] Sabrina: That is very true. So, so yeah. What I did is like in Germany, but I think it's a concept in, in, in many other countries too, is that you can write your final thesis in collaboration with a company and then have a, like a case study that you work on, an empirical study that you work on.
And that's what I did. As always, it was by coincidence. I talked to my professor and she had this person from HR reach out to her saying they're looking for somebody to support them on such a trend analysis, which is what they called it at that time because it was just the more or less, let's say all of the big companies where.
At least thinking about defining and setting up shared services centers for hr. S a P had just opened their EMEA shared Services Center in Prague right at the time, and were still building it up starting with the, it's a first basic functions there for finance and also hr.
And because we were also, of course, selling the software at the time, you know, they wanted to go, they wanted to know where the heads of the HR leaders in the region are at and where the trends are going. So this is what I signed up for. It was amazing. I only realized much later on.
The connections that I've made, because when you're a student, you don't, sometimes don't know, you know the magnitude of leaders that you talk to and the connections that you've made, but also how much, honestly, what I've done there. Has then truly become a reality couple years later. I mean, that was, to me, was new to the topic then.
And yeah I loved it. I wrote that thesis together with s a p and then afterwards joined s a p as a full-time employee in that very shared service center in Prague. , but on the finance side at the time, . ,
[00:05:58] Steve: and I mean, 16 year journey since that's how I'll just quick reflection on that time.
[00:06:03] Sabrina: And thought about that a lot, especially in the last couple weeks because it's so long. But then as well I've changed board areas or functions as well. Not only roles, but really functions. I, I've worked for finance and then I worked in our internal business consulting department.
I then worked in our consulting sales department, and only then came to HR as a program manager at the time, and then developed into an HR leader, so to say. And I truly have to say that between all these different functions culture differs. The, of course, the focus anyhow of, let's say of the tasks, but also really the culture and plus s a p has developed.
Such a big deal in these 16 years. Like when I wrote my thesis, s a p had like 33,000 employees across the globe, and now we have more than 110,000. So, it's just a, it's a different, you know, it's kind of, it's a different company in many aspects, but the, let's say the spirit and this the SAP spirit I believe we, we have still kept, which is a great.
[00:07:12] Steve: which is a really good thing, which is so good to hear, so good to hear. . And one more thing I also picked up just I, I have to ask CrossFit. Oh
[00:07:20] Sabrina: my goodness. Yeah. , .
[00:07:20] Steve: I have to ask cuz I saw it and I was like, okay, let's yeah, I'd love to. Yeah. Is that a passion of yours? Is that something which is Yeah.
[00:07:27] Sabrina: Part of your life? It is, it is. It is. I mean, I've ne I hated sports like for pretty much all of my life. But then I. Oh my goodness. When was that? I think it's six years ago or seven years ago even. I was at a point where I really like physically also, I didn't feel good anymore, had high blood pressure and stuff.
And so my brother was already very much into working out. And so I joined that gym, which was not yet a CrossFit box. It was a regular gym at our town, and I started to really work out and follow a plan of one of the coaches there. Who then later on opened the first CrossFit box in our town here.
And I'm member number eight, I think. So I've been there from the start. . , I, to me CrossFit is just, it's it's a great way to to. Become fit and stay fit by really utilizing all of your body's, you know, movements and abilities by combining weightlifting and cardio to really train it, let's say, holistically in a way that I mean, I don't have time to work out, you know, multiple hours a day.
And I but I still want to ensure that. I keep fit. And so to me, CrossFit has given me that ability. I I most recently went a little more into endurance work because post covid, I I yeah, I just I had to train a little bit more my endurance, which honestly I'm really looking forward to joining the classes again because simply it's more fun.
It's a sense of community. But nobody else, like we're so diverse and nobody really. What you do and who you are, we're just in this together. And I love this. This brings you outta this whole working context every time you go
[00:09:17] Steve: there. Yes. And of course, you know, for wellbeing, this kind of activity now, particularly working from home on not, you know, even just the small things of commute and movement you know, we need to that.
Yeah. I mean, as we know, wellbeing is, Super hot topic in lots of organizations now. Yeah. To really support employees in different ways and to encourage them in different ways. Very cool. Very cool. So look let's let's jump into an area which I'm really, I'm so curious to hear your views on and just get your perspective on this.
On a really broad topic, the HR function and also as an industry There's, you know, HR doesn't get a good rap in some organizations. I think in many, some organizations probably have some bad PR potentially. But also, you know, during covid, if you know, I dunno if you saw this, a really interesting.
Words started to kind of come out in LinkedIn for an example. You see some of the trends and how HR was being praised and how supported they've been and how much they'd stepped up to the plate in these really challenging times when the humans inside the organization. We're all being forced into, you know, these situations.
So, and I think that was such an amazing time for me. Cause I was like, this is brilliant. This is actually some of the work that probably they've been doing anyway, but in different context, but perhaps haven't really had either the visibility or the appreciation actually for what that function or in, you know, the discipline does.
And then since then it's just been, I think it's been brilliant actually to see some of the evolution. , what's your thoughts on that? What are you, what's your what have you seen in, in the last kind of 3, 4, 5 years from a HR industry perspective?
[00:10:53] Sabrina: I completely agree with you what I always said.
So let's say I'm a big believer in in digitalization of hr in the sense that, you know, make digital whatever is possible to standardize and also whatever is possible. To you know, to ensure we are compliant and we have all the information that, that we need at one place if we need it.
And we've been talking, or I've also I mean, we as s a p of course, simp simply because we, the good thing is that we're kind of, we drink our own champagne. We utilize our own solutions. But we started that journey into the cloud HR solutions, you know, back in 2015. And we really rethought our HR model back at the time in changing our viewpoint from we are the HR experts.
We defined the processes, we standardize into, Hey, let's put ourselves in the shoes of our managers and employees and let's Really define how they would like to experience certain well e let's say every step of their journey within a s a P to put it in a very easy context. And and we've been talking about that and I've talked to a lot of HR peers especially in the last five years within Eastern Europe, I have to say.
Where of course, They were miles away from even thinking about investing in hr in digitalizing hr, because HR is, you know, we have to have it. People need to get their money at the end of the day. But why, you know, spending so much money on this function we need to see, you know, how we can stay productive and things like that.
I think. Covid as any crisis or any, let's say any event that's happening unexpectedly brings huge opportunity for some. And I think Covid did great for hr. Agreed. Simply because all of a sudden, as you said, we were in the center of attention, I guess for in every company because. , either it was the board was asking, you know, can we just send people home?
Like, are we even allowed, you know, do we need insurance? Whatever. Do we give people, you know, the office su supplies and furniture and stuff like this. So all these more, let's say administrative tasks, but then as well, We all of a sudden were the ones where every employee turned to and asked for advice.
Also, personally, people were struggling. You know, we realized that working from home with families at home brings challenges to employees. So we needed to talk about that. We needed to, you know, give a platform for, let's say, scattered working hours or, you know, Our employees in that direction. We realize that there are people that live alone by themselves in isolation and cannot cope with that.
So it was a multitude of things that all of a sudden HR was in the center of attention and rightly so. But I, but that also led to very, to. The situation that we, it was hard for the functions to handle the multitude of things that were coming on to us from the administrative tasks, from, again, staying compliant, making sure insurances are there and now, and, As a company we are compliant with everything that's needed with the fastly changing requirements from the governments, but then as well for our employees and what we saw, apart from how we handled it at S A P.
But I think on the market, I think this gave a huge push into investments, into hr. Into starting to digitalize, you know, data and be because they realize that with this fast-changing environment if you don't have what you need, you know, at one spot and if you don't enable employees to. Take care of their own data, beat address or whatever.
You will not be able to manage it in a situation like this. And I think this was a breaking point to really think about, is HR really only there to take care of these administrative things? Now we are much, much more, we are the ones that really. Are the orchestrator of wellbeing for our employees, especially during that time of covid.
But in order to be that the company needs to support HR with a solid, you know, Base for centralization of data and for for standardization of processes in a way that yeah, that we can just scale this and take this administrative load out of the brains of hr That, that we are as HR professions because we can add so much more value if we don't have to take care of these topics.
You know, 80% of.
[00:15:56] Steve: Absolutely. I love that word, orchestrator. I think. I think that's such a, I also think there's an orchestrate. There's an orchestrate, part element. And I think there's an architect element in this. Oh yeah. And no, that's really, yeah. Okay. That's really, so. Are we seeing then that this acceleration then in terms of how we're seeing this, you know, we've heard it for a number of years, this consumerization experience, like what do we experience as consumers from a digital landscape and how we use everyday tools or everyday services.
Are we seeing that acceleration or seeing that acceleration on then internally inside the organization on some of these kind of the digitalization? to enable employees to give them more autonomy around some of these tasks. Have you seen that?
[00:16:45] Sabrina: Yes, totally. I have. And I also believe it's a natural, it's not only like we do this for the sake of, again, making a HR more strategic, but quite simply as well to attract, you know, the talents for the, and the skills that we need in the future.
because quite frankly, even. Like we, we can be digital native, so we can be not, but we live our life digitally. Like, you know, I, we we schedule appointments with our doctors via an app. We book our flights. We board our flights on our phone. We I don't know. We just simp we pay with our phones.
We, we do everything with our phones, basically. And I believe that if we. Going into a company where I still have to, you know, deal with lots of paper to, to get vacation approved or whatever time sheets and stuff like that. This is a culture, this is a sh a culture shift or a shock even from this is no longer real life scenario.
Right. And I believe that companies have to as well develop in a way where, In the direction that life is developing too. Because if people are used to an easy handling of, let's say, data processing or updating or quick, you know, quick, yeah. Finalization of some tasks simply by utilizing an app, whatever.
I think this is what we have to provide for them too. It's a necessity. It is no longer a a. Yeah.
[00:18:21] Steve: Yeah. And this, what does this allows, cuz this is the other thing as well, is HR functions from reactive. Into proactive. Yeah. And you know, h traditional HR functions are always deal dealing on it, tend to be dealing on more reactive plethora of different tasks and needs from the organization.
So with this kind of digitalization and some of the automations and some of these progressions that are happening, what does this free up and what does this allow HR to do or to focus on in your opinion? What could they be doing more of?
[00:18:55] Sabrina: I believe with. With digitalization of Simply data and also getting access to data anytime, anywhere.
It enables HR to finally take decisions based on. Reality or driving business cases with the business showing the truth in the organization, be it outcome of some surveys that we're taking or, you know, continuous survey that, for example, we have been doing check-in surveys with all of our employee employees during C O V D.
And we were, you know, looking into the results and then also finding out that from the many activities that we've done in the beginning, you know, in addition to our normal, let's say, health and wellbeing programs as well. After some time, you know, there was kind of, we could send the trend to fatigue of too much of this from the employer.
So we, you know, we could change our direction. Before it, you know, became a bit of a, as, as well, annoyance almost with employees. So, so I think this access to data and the easy handling of, you know, getting feedback as well enables us to create much, much better strategic programs for employees.
But I think on a, from a business perspective, we can prove. To the business leaders that we work with, the necessity for development programs the, let's say the scarcity of talent. If we talk about succession management, you know, all these topics we can now base on, yeah on data that that is accessible in the system also to our leaders and employees.
It's not always assumption and it's not waiting until. Saying with success management, somebody leaves tomorrow and we are all surprised. Do not have somebody who can, you know, join immediately. Yeah.
[00:20:51] Steve: Yeah. We need to remove assumptions out of decision making in leadership. , there's too much going on
It's been problematic for many years now. Exactly. So. Okay, so the question that was coming into mind there was from a HR function point of view. So you think about your team potentially com from a context point of view, with this shift from this you know, say potentially previously reactive into then capturing data to be able to build business cases, to be able to show the R ROI or what, you know, what's the improvement?
I al what springs to mind as well is the how, so, For me, like how are HR functions and people that work in hr. Also evolving from a mindset and from a competence point of view. Because I think there's an I I, I, you know, there's a need in that as well. I think to add more value in different ways, you don't just suddenly know how to do it.
There are evolutions just in that in, in the discipline of hr. How do you see the role, like the roles within HR evolving from this kind of traditional into the more modern and even futuristic approach? Yeah. Approach to people.
[00:22:00] Sabrina: I think this is a brilliant question because indeed this is something we, we often tend to forget.
Like we pride ourselves that finally we evolve from back office to a kind of front office, you know? , and we're there strategic partners, and yes, the knowledge is there. Like I, I don't know, nobody in my team or in the wider context that is not capable of providing that. But again, it's the how, because years over.
We were there to serve the requests, so to say or we were there to process the more, you know, whatever is labor law necessary to process that. And now all of a sudden we are there to present, you know, data to the business and we prove that, you know, there is a showcase for certain topics.
So definitely we cannot leave HR professionals alone in this. Again, I believe. We are capable of much more than we think, simply because we have that expertise and that mindset. And we have grown with this. So we have it inside us, but not all of us have the self-confidence to, to also show it, you know?
And to. Go out with it. So, so I think we, we have to guide them. And what I've done is a small example there where, right. We, in, especially in Eastern Europe, where we very often faced, you know, when I started in the role, high attrition and the, you know, escalations and in different areas, especially in countries where, We have this more centralized, let's say, services or development centers where other companies had the brilliant same idea because just we have the tech skills on the market.
And we created a project and not going into data, but it was data based where I brought together different functions within HR and I said, let's combine our expertise and let's combine as well the data that we have around a market. Internal, you know, HR data, attrition but also, you know, salaries.
And but even macroeconomic data, like what's the unemployment rate, what's the inflation rate? All these things combined. And I invited all of those functions to sit on a quarterly basis to sit with the business leaders of these functions. So this was new for the business leaders. Like what? I don't only have one HR person.
But then second, I didn't put the pressure all on one HR person to know it all. And I kept everybody in their kind of yeah, area of expertise, somewhat in their comfort zone when it comes to speaking to their function. But in combination, it the business. Received all of a sudden transparency and knowledge from HR that they were blown away with, and that created a much better bond and trust between our customers and the HR function.
And plus, of course, it boosted the self-confidence of our HR people in the countries. Right. And that was. To me it was much more, it was more of a natural thing. Like let's just show them what the situation is and let's get their view as well into what they hear from the employees and how can we become better in anticipating, you know, certain things that are coming.
But it was actually , it turned out to be a great, let's say, an enablement of the HR function to really be much more front. And also our customers to be blown away by the depth of knowledge that, that we actually carry in the function. Right? So I think we have to guide the HR function into this center of attention.
, I'm a hundred percent sure that most of us have it in US because we are, what makes us unique is our knowledge.
[00:25:49] Steve: I agree. I love that example. What springs to mind is there's two things that spring to mind is one of my narratives, which is everything you need is inside your organization.
You just need to unlock it. And I think it, it aligns into, I think doing more with what you have. And I think we're always seeking externally, like benchmarking or where, what are others doing or what's the case studies? It's like, no, forget all that. It doesn't matter. It's. Unlock what you have inside your team and your organization is so much in there.
Yeah. If you just break those silos and bring people together, and I think that was a good example there where you shared, you know, multiple HR contacts in a room sharing their own different perspectives around a particular challenge, which then gave so much more value to the business. And then I think really vitally in that is I always like to switch perspectives as much as I can.
Is what is then the leader's experience of HR in that, their own experience. And how is that then shifting and you've already shared there. It builds trust, it build, you know, they were blown away by that experience. So just like even thinking about it as an experience, like how do I experience HR now before Covid or after Covid?
So I think that's a really nice example. Can I just ask as well, cuz there's something in the, like from an industry point of view because I'm curious to see this cuz what I'm seeing is this evolution happening where we've got HR and you know, I've seen some stuff on LinkedIn where people are now comparing, cause we love this binary, it's either one way or the other.
, you know, HR function people and culture function. And they're kind of comparing these two functional areas and then you've got this employee experience. Movement. And I think there's also a discipline emerging without a doubt. I actually see future. Definitely future career channels evolving and I really do see that in the future.
And so how do we make sense of all of that employee experience, people and culture, hr, and should we be thinking this as maybe as one or separately? What can we learn from these, all these different emerging areas? What's your thoughts on that? What's your take and view?
[00:27:52] Sabrina: So what we have done just very recently at SAP is that, that we.
We saw the trends and we also saw post covid changes again in how How talents are looking for new challenges now, I'm much bolder now as well to move again and potentially move outside. Are more also are again, more open to, to, you know, change companies again. I mean, the pandemic is over where we saw a bit of a stop off, you know?
Career development as well, because it was a new situation. Everybody was you know, needed time to deal with it. Now that it's slowing down, this is what we see. And we saw this as well as a next step of the evolution of our HR model. And what we did is we created this people experience function within the HR organization that combines different.
Like how should I now explain this past so different functions again. We've changed the focus of some of the functions and we evolve because what we realize is number one, that we need. Expertise in the different areas. Like we, we have created a dedicated future of work team that is really dealing with trends in in, in working models.
And really doing that. So to say separately and really specializing into that, of course, tightly collaborating with local HR directors to see what is possible from a local labor law perspective and things like that. . So we split different topics and work focuses out of the function.
to be able to focus again on, on what we believe right now is very necessary to serve our employees best to create the best people experience inside in the company for our employees. So, so what that entails is as well, we, of course, keep the function of the local HR directors. You not only need it from, like, you need it from a local label or standpoint, of course.
But again, what we've dealt with as HR directors was not only that representative function, you know, to be the DHR leader in the country, to be part of the local management team. It was much more as well, the administrative, you know, topics that come to you simply because you are the. You know, accountable for the label or topics, but we split that out into very focused and experienced HR colleagues that take different functions across.
And HRDs are now there to create this unique environment for employees and leaders in the different countries, depending on what. You know, the trends are in the country or the local culture even is, you know, in some countries, you know, we have a development lab where we have a bit of a different culture than where we are more of a sales focus office, so to say, so inside that, create initiatives as well for employees to, to fill the togetherness to maybe even be motivated as well to come together in the office now post covid to, to get used to that sense of community again.
but not only that, not only retain what we have, but quite frankly what we realized is that we also need to speak up more outside on the market and. Talk about, you know, what a great employer we are. We cannot kind of like just, you know, think that, oh it's fine if we retain the people that we have.
We need new skills in the future, but also labor markets are getting so hot again right now. That it's essential that we are known as a top employer on the market. So it's that complete mindset shift of, you know, we, we are focusing inside the organization. We create an environment where people can work in a healthy, safe environment.
They can develop themselves, they can grow, they can thrive. But no, this is not enough. , we need to as well talk about that outside. Two, two peers, but also be visible to prospects, so to say, talent prospects on the market.
[00:32:19] Steve: Yeah. What shifted, so I remember your topic that you shared that Disrupt HR was, this was the new kind of hr structure and approach at s a P.
And it was launch, I think it launch was it Memory says you right. Cuz you, you you were saying it's done now. It's, I think it was launching 1st of October, memory seven. Yes. That is that correct. . So what, how's it. and what's changed, just to give us a sense of where you've come from and then to now today, and how has it been the first two, three months?
How's it gone?
[00:32:50] Sabrina: I truly have to say that. Come October 1st, you could sense a change in how we perform our jobs. Of course, it's still like, you know, lots of question marks. Topics come up and people are like, so technically who's now responsible for this? But that's natural, you know? Oh, but it's no longer.
It's no longer that, yeah, we transform, but there are topics where we don't know where they belong. I will handle them locally because in the end, locally, it needs to be done. I think this has changed really drastically, and this is a great thing. I think we talk about this, we bring it up and we really want to define a way how in the future we will deal, you know, with the topics in the light of the new setup of the different functions.
So I see a. Very open discussion and again really newly created transparency about what is actually landing on the desk off the different functions now. And does it really belong with me? Or and then why? Because right now I don't see, or where would. In the, you know, in the whole framework of the new reality.
And what I also see is an uptake of really external activity from the HRDs on LinkedIn. You know, the ones I'm connected with or also in, in arctic tickling conferences. We, we have the HIV that I think are, have become much more open to. These challenges as well, because I guess the focus now allows it a and I think the other functions as well have taken up, you know, what what the other tasks that we, that, that were with us before.
So I see a very big Yeah. Step already into that direction, even within the first three months. Tons of topics we still have to clarify, you know, and there's, but there is it's really, it's a, it's an environment where people openly talk about it and and where we always find as well interim solutions, you know, how to ensure really, to really ensure that the people, the experience for our employees and manager, Is not, let's say, disrupted by the disruptive change really within the HR organization.
Yes. And this is really great. I like the spirit. Yeah.
[00:35:13] Steve: Yeah. It's a fine balance. It's a fine balance. And there, there must have be, I mean, you know, any strategic shift there, there's always. You know, there's areas where you are like, yep, this is gonna be great. And there's other areas like, oh, we're just not sure yet.
It's a bit of an experiment. Exactly. Yeah. It's definitely, well, could I, could you just share me, are there any elements that you felt, well, while going into this where you thought, this is an experiment. We're really, this is a litmus test, we don't really know how it's gonna land yet? Yeah. Anything to share
[00:35:41] Sabrina: it, it's, I mean, and it's still like tons of topics that.
Are very distinct to local organizations, be it some certain benefits that have been defined at some space and that somehow the administration lay used to lay with the local HR business partners or i d simply because historically it was like that and you were kind of always used to be doing that, so you kind of.
you've always did it. And even if somebody else took over, it was part of the handover, but nobody really talked about it. And of course we were identifying this then in the, you know, in the new setup where all of a sudden this function, or let's say the, not only the function, but more, but much more as well, the the capacity locally was no longer actually there.
And the very often when I said, I'm really curious to see, you know, how this in the end is going to land and I clearly see here many discussions and a bit of like, because nobody really knows where now this should belong because we haven't been, we haven't been talking about that kind of, but this is good, you know, I like it because even right now it still sits.
Locally because we haven't found anywhere to, to give it to, quite frankly, it is not part of the portfolio of an, let's say, H R D, at least not at S A P. And so I think the only fact that we're discussing this and that we're open to discuss it, and find a new place and also find, maybe consciously even decide that it will stay with us, but then at least we have, you know, all consciously thought about it.
And took a common decision. And I like that a lot. But definitely, and we've, and this is also what I really have to say, a big shout out also to the global organization, is that they clearly. There is no other way we are going to take that decision. This is the next evolution. But hey let's have an open dialogue and if things do not work out after a quarter or two, let's adopt them again.
So we make them work. And this was, I think this was amazing. I think this was only possible as well. Because we, I mean we keep evolving our HR model every couple years. You know, we take a bolder step in, you know, bringing us to the next level. But I think this was the first time when we, when this was so clearly communicated, and I think we have the maturity as well to to take this because I'm a firm believer.
Top down, you have to have a rock solid decision. No discussion. We will do this step kind of like attitude in order to make an organization, you know, accept the change because we don't like change. It's always a disruption in our routine and, you know, so it's something uncomfortable. To say now that, Hey, listen, you know, will do this.
There is no discussion. Yes, but hey, let's see after a quarter or two, and if things really do not work, let's just keep in touch and we may adopt if something really does not work out or where we see, we have to tweak it again. . Five years ago, I would've said, my goodness, this is never going because everybody wants to keep everything, you know, as it is right now.
But this time I think it was great and it was the right thing to do because the organization is mature enough and also has the, let's say, self-confidence now to wanting to contribute. And it's a very constructive discussion, I have to say. I like that a
[00:39:21] Steve: lot. Oh, I love that example. Wow. So much coming to mind on that one.
, I think top the top down, clarity is always critical. Yep. I'm also wondering in this whether the experimental nature of C O V I D. Just woke a few people up in that we can experiment and we have, you know, and there are good things on the other side because I know it's for the all for the wrong reasons, but there was some good stuff that's come outta Covid for sure.
And we're still in that experimentation mode. . And I love the fact that I think you are, is in for some of the components of this h new HR strategy and the deployment. There are elements where it is an experiment and I think that everybody is com you know, more comfortable with that. I think some of that could be attributed to the journey that we've all been on in you know, during the Covid period.
Next year I have, I was gonna share this in LinkedIn in the new year, but I'll share this now but my One of my words for 2023 is experimentation. And I think this is great. This is actually, I think in from some of the conversations and research that we've done. I think this is something we all have to get used to, is this constant experimentation and to dare, I think use the word dare I think is absolutely critical.
And to be comfortable. In just saying, Hey, we don't know the answer. We don't know what's gonna happen, but we're gonna experiment and it might fail, but we're still gonna learn something from it and we're gonna move to something else. So I think that's a really nice example. Beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful. Love it. so what's let's let's future gaze just to, to to have a think about this. What do, what are you kind of seeing in 2023? It's the time of the trends end of the year, isn't it? Everybody's making their predictions and producing their reports based on.
Maybe some data or maybe just their own predictions. Who knows . But let's yeah, what do you see, what's sort of some of the predictions you see evolving into next year? What's some of the words, perhaps maybe I invite you to think of some words to share that would resonate for you for next year?
[00:41:20] Sabrina: I, so in the, like, COVID is kind of over, but now we're in this economically rather unstable, let's say, environment that. That brought some microeconomic trends already this year, where especially large organizations like ours, you know, we have to think about how we deal with that on a mid long term run as well.
And I believe that this is something that next year will bring. We really have to. Let's say, see the development as well. Come it, be it inflation, be it also how the labor markets react to it. And don't be too late in again, reacting to whatever is necessary. Be it you know, different ways how we attract talents, you know, creating more transparency around.
we do things, what we offer. Really rethinking potentially as well some of our you know, current structures when it comes to maybe even payment. I don't know. But that's, I think, and your, I would've never called it experimenting, but I think it will come down to this because we are in an, in a not stable environment.
And The market is changing so quickly. Smaller companies are reacting very quickly on, let's say inflation, where we say, you know, listen, you know, this is a trend right now, but, you know, let's be a bit conservative when it comes to that, especially also, we have huge organizations, and that's a, it's a bit of a different thing, but it makes it hard for us.
To attract outside talent at the moment, or even, you know, have our inside talents, you know, react much faster to offers from the outside if all of a sudden they're much, much higher. Or there are rumors, you know, that all other companies are reacting to that. So, so I think it's an environment that is changing so quickly where large organizations have, are a little bit slower to, to, I think Hop on to, to, to certain trends simply because it.
longer decision chains and, you know, topics like that. But I believe that we have to go into that, especially in less mature markets to be much more experimenting and trying out this smaller company you know, mindset. We need to go for this. We need to have the, let's say, freedom as well to change our in.
our ways of doing things in order to stay competitive and successful on the market. And I think here again, the role of the local H R D is extremely important and is also now where the company management and the local management is really relying on for advice.
[00:43:58] Steve: I love that.
Can I just ask as well, so just to share some I guess on a reflection of the journey that you've been. If you were to give like, just maybe two or three guiding points for someone who's working in perhaps a HR function that was similar to SAPs six months ago, maybe or maybe a year ago, and is thinking about some form of evolution or a adoption what would you, are there any kind of.
Two or three kind of areas of advice you would just give people just to kind of have a think or to bring some focus to.
[00:44:30] Sabrina: One, definitely. One topic that I say and that I truly believe is that digitalization has to make a company more human and will make it, but we have to also, Accept that, but digitalization of let's say hr processes cannot mean that we need less.
HR people. It means that we focus the expertise much, much differently and in a much more value generating for, and, you know, experience creating, really function for our employees and leaders. We, we then have time and it frees up our capability of providing. The best possible, you know, environment really in, in, in all aspects for our employees and leaders.
So, so as a company, do not think about you know, digitalization. HR makes it, you know, less human-centric in a way. , of course, this is the perception in the beginning as well of employees and leaders. So from that start, it has to be a guided principle in that transformation. And of course it makes you more efficient and of course, and it's not a myth that companies are then also looking to reduce a bit of, you know, HR workforce.
I, understand that from a business perspective but keep that in mind that you then need to focus more on, on experience management for employees and managers outside of what's necessary to stay compliant. . And that goes along with the second topic that, that I really see, is that also what we are now focusing on again, where I see is that, Potentially lost a bit of focus in is creating that yeah the the space for for HRDs to be that.
To be there for each and every kind of employee in a country where, you know, everyone knows where to turn to for the different topics in hr, and it will mostly be digitally a digital entrance to, to, you know, what, whatever solution it is. But what I mean is for that we need to keep in mind, The uniqueness of local organizations towards the labor market, but inside SAP as well, and creating initiatives that cater to the needs or maybe even the dreams, you know, for employees within the organization.
Because I think this Is natural. What gets lost a little bit if you start, you know, becoming more efficient and having the digital, you know, the digital ways of solving HR topics and you're brilliant at that. And so everybody feels well served from an HR perspective. But then who am I as s a P ELO employee in Germany, even though my job is in Eastern Europe, but I have a German contract.
I think there HR needs to have a huge focus again, in, in creating that sense of belonging and that sense of community in the local organization. And I think this is something that we now focus on much more. Again, that can get lost in this journey of becoming more and more digital. And that's a separate focus to becoming more human is really keeping that in.
[00:48:05] Steve: I agree. I think a theme across both of those areas you shared was human-centric. Yes. And then also this thing quoting, you know, the experience economy book. Is this difference between a service and an experience and one is service is time well saved, and the other one experience is time well spent.
Yes. And I think, you know, digitalization and the efficiency elements will allow then obviously a much more transactional or a gate into you know, an area, but then it allows the h r d or the leaders or the managers to then be able to have, you know, where do we need to? Like, where are the moments that we really need to that's time well spent for us and also our employees.
So I, I heard that as well in, in the examples you shared there. My word I could, I, we could, I honestly, I could talk to you for hours. Okay. So Sabrina I just wanna say how grateful I am to have connected with you randomly on a stage Absolutely. In Serbia, , , and to be sitting here today having a wonderful conversation.
I really enjoyed the conversation. I'm really grateful for your time and your contribution to the podcast and and sharing out Yeah. Your knowledge and your perspective of the world. And yeah. So thank you so.
[00:49:15] Sabrina: No, thank you Steve. Really I felt so honored when you asked me to join the podcast and it has been an amazing conversation.
We've had a great reflection as well for me, again, upon what's going on right now inside our function. So thank you so much for the opportunity,
[00:49:29] Steve: really. It's amazing. And if anybody wants to connect with you I'm happy to share like LinkedIn, your LinkedIn profile. Absolutely. Happy to share. Yeah. And yeah, again, thank you so much.